This Week in Jobs: How AI Is Changing Hiring, Pay, and Power At Work

AI isn't coming for work someday. It's already sitting in the seat next to you, quietly handling tasks, writing drafts, and redefining what good performance looks like.

We talk with Ricky Baez about what he's seeing from HR and business leaders right now: faster adoption, bigger expectations, and a widening gap between people building AI skills and people waiting for the wave to pass. Along the way, we get into new survey data showing workers using AI to absorb coworker tasks, why so many employees stay quiet about it, and how that silence tends to backfire when output rises, but headcount hasn't.

We also debate the piece that makes hiring feel impersonal: Amazon moving to AI-run interviews with zero human involvement. Helpful shortcut for high-volume seasonal roles, or the start of a process that signals candidates don't matter? From there, it's practical recruiting realities, including using AI to cut ghosting, speed up screening, and move qualified people to a real recruiter faster, and why the hybrid approach tends to win.

Then the harder questions: bias, disparate impact, and why employment law is lagging behind AI screening tools and automated hiring decisions. We connect that to broader signals such as strong small-business hiring, low unemployment claims, and a workforce that's mostly satisfied but hesitant to move.

If you're hiring, job searching, or trying to stay relevant, this episode clearly maps out the new expectations. Subscribe, share it with a coworker, and leave a review with your take: should AI be allowed to interview you?

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

Pete Newsome 0:00

We are live for this week in jobs with a special guest this week, Ricky Baez. Welcome. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Thank you, man. Appreciate it. It's been uh I'm excited. I'm excited. Uh so uh we haven't done one of these in eight. I I know you guys have, but we haven't done one in ages.

Pete Newsome 0:16

It's been a while. We we haven't done one in ages. We're completely putting you on the spot today, talking about what has happened in the job market this week. You have no idea what these stories are. We're gonna throw at you, we're gonna look for your opinion on these. So uh looking forward to putting you to the test today.

AI Is Moving Faster Than Plans

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Let's do it. I've had my coffee, I'm good.

Pete Newsome 0:35

Well, let's just start with AI, Ricky. We we almost always have to start with AI lately. It is the topic that's on everyone's mind. Lots of different opinions on it. AI is displacing jobs, AI's adding jobs. It's much ado about nothing. It's going to be the biggest disruption that we've ever seen. Before we get into this, just where do you fall? What give it give us a give us a taste for where you are in that?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Man, so I'm uh I I totally geek out on AI. I totally geek out on it. Um, but I'm I'm I'm also seeing that it's evolving so quickly. I mean, look where we are now to where we were three years ago when chat GPT first came on the scene. And now it's it's grown up. That baby has grown up and now it's about to have a PhD in rocket science because that's that's how much it's evolving. A great example when we first started using Chat GPT, we're like, wow, this is amazing. And I just started using um uh Claude a couple of weeks ago. Wow, night and day. So it's evolving. So um I am a proponent, I am seeing a huge shift in the uh marketplace about uh what business leaders are thinking about and how they're uh what decisions they're making in whether keeping human capital or just keeping the bot. Um so so that's what I'm seeing. So, real quick, um a couple of weeks ago, I was uh I was the uh MC at a uh um at the Jacksonville Sherm Conference, and one of the keynote speakers says something that it kind of took the air out of the room. Um, she said, uh, if you go on LinkedIn right now or indeed right now, you're going to see that about 70% of the job ads has some kind of a requirement of AI hunting experience. And the whole room were like like wow, they were not expecting that. And let me tell you, I looked it up, she's 100% spot on, man. Spot on. So it's definitely changing how we work and how we hire.

Pete Newsome 2:43

Definitely is it is so you're you're in my camp, right? You think this is going to be significant to say the least. It already is.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, it is. I mean, it is. I'm I'm uh um without going into too many details, I'm having conversations with some clients who are who are who are um thinking about making some changes because of it, and obviously I'm um I'm not pushing back, but I'm throwing some caution into the wind and saying, hold on, I get it, I get it. It's a new shiny toy, it's gonna help, but let's take a step back, let's re-reorganize how we're thinking about uh the talent that we have and what resources we're going to use later on. Um, in that same conference, um, the uh the lady asked, um, I got I gotta get her name, man. The the uh the lady asked, raise your hand if you're afraid of AI, and quite a P quite a few people raised their hand. And I have an opinion on that. Uh, because my opinion is is the people that raise their hand um are not going to be in the workforce in 20 years.

Pete Newsome 3:46

That's that's an interesting statement because when I have conversations with people, I I find those who won't be in the workforce in the not too distant future aren't too concerned about it, yeah. Right, because they have nothing to fear, um, and rather dismissive of it, in fact. Um, now that said, our own survey data has showed us that those who use AI the most are the ones who are most afraid of it.

Peter Porebski 4:14

And I find that very it's like ignorance is blister because like maybe they're maybe it's if you don't know what's coming, you're like, oh well, it's probably gonna blow over, and but the people actually know what it can do or like they can see the potential there.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Wait, but wait a minute. So, what kind of fear? Fear that they don't understand it, or fear that, oh my god, this is gonna take my job?

Pete Newsome 4:35

Fear about that, right? Fear, fear about how it's going to impact the workforce, their place in it. Also, our survey, and this is multiple quarters in a row now, and the the trend on this is very clear. Executives are also the most concerned about the future of the job market um in AI. And these are the people who are making the decision. So heavy users and executives clearly have more concern than everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

See, that's interesting because I I use it quite a bit, right? For for for my business, it helps me a lot. And I do have employees, right? And and and they were afraid at first. I'm like, don't worry about it. Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna use you for something else, but I'm also going to give you the resources on how to use this and learn how to use this better. I'm excited for it, Pete. I gotta tell you, it's I'm excited for how that's going to change how we work. And it's I'm assuming it's the same excitement people had, or same fear people had. And I've used this analogy before when the typewriter was the main tool, and then Microsoft Word came about, right? I'm pretty sure people were afraid then, and I'm pretty sure they said, So you're gonna rely on Microsoft Word to uh for spelling, nobody's gonna use a dictionary anymore. I mean, I don't. I'm gonna be honest. I don't use a dictionary, but still, I mean, it's everyday use now. So I'm assuming that's going to be the the same way in 10 years.

Peter Porebski 5:59

So you think that jobs are just gonna change rather than like go away? It's not gonna be, you know, this typewriter example. Secretaries were in that we had, you know, an entire bay of secretaries that were typing up stuff. I mean, we've I've seen Mad Men, so it's like you know, uh each office had one of those, and now a lot of that can be done by fewer people in the office. I mean, there's still secretaries, but they're doing different things, they're you know, moved into more admin type roles.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

I mean, I is it going to eliminate jobs, yes, but it's also going to create new ones. So, for example, um, I'm sure I'm sure you guys have seen that movie Hidden Figures. Yes, okay, right. So they did all that calculation by hand, yeah, right. And and now, I mean, because look, I use Excel regularly and I use pivot tables, cell formulations. I don't know how people did that job financial analysis 40 years ago.

Pete Newsome 6:50

Ricky, we we sent we sent someone to the moon doing manual calculations.

Peter Porebski 6:56

I've got my grandpa's slide ruler, like they he was an engineer in the in the seven sixties and seventies. Yeah.

Pete Newsome 7:02

But yeah, the running joke is you know, teachers when we were growing up would say you have to learn math, these math skills. It's not like you're gonna have a calculator in your pocket. Well, we know how that turned out.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

So now we got a full production studio in our pocket.

AI Replaces Work Without Permission

Pete Newsome 7:14

So it's all about so let's so let's actually get to the the headlines based on this. It's a good segue into it. There's this uh a survey that was just published today by resume builder.com, and it shows that 60 oh more than 60 percent of uh those who took the survey have used AI to take on tasks previously done by a coworker. Okay, easy enough to believe. 74% um are companies that have conducted layoffs in the past 12 months. So work's being replaced clearly by the people who took this survey. And again, there's a lot of dismissiveness about this, but survey after survey shows that this is actually happening. So, what's your thought on that?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

I it man, it's it's when we're in the middle of it, I can understand why some people are apprehensive of it, right? But if you take a step back and what that means for the future of work, that that's why for me it's really exciting, right? And and I get it, some people push back, but they push back because their their rationale is I don't want to be replaced. Where the way I'm looking at it is I we have to be excited about it. And by the way, that train is gonna leave the station with or without you. So, what I'm telling people is just get to know it, don't be afraid of it. I can kind of understand why people would say the more you get to use it, the more afraid people will be. I guess a a similar uh analogy would be is the more you study a subject, the more you realize how much you don't know. And the more you realize, like, wow, I I my eyes are being open about things I didn't know before. So I guess my thought process on it is is I just I think that's gonna go away once it becomes more streamlined, and once it becomes more um ingrained into our personal and work lives. So I think that might go away, P, to be honest.

Peter Porebski 9:12

Do you think the people, I mean, so the we've got the headline that people are trying to, you know, they're doing more with they're doing more with AI than it was their job before. Do you think it's going to kind of backfire a little bit and that people will become resentful and feel like they're they're expected to do more and be paid the same amount?

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Ah man, so we have yet to to see that piece, right? Because um, I I went from three years ago watching organizations say, do not use AI, don't use that, stop it, to now almost everybody I speak with is they make it a requirement. And they do expect more for the same pay.

Pete Newsome 9:51

Okay, okay. So let me let me tell you another point that came out in this survey, which I find both amusing also, but also not surprising. Almost 63% don't tell their manager how much they're using AI. So isn't that interesting, right? We're encouraging people to AI, as you uh alluded to, job postings, and and there's some data on that that we have today, too. Uh, but people are kind of hiding a little bit. You think I I mean, I assume it's because they don't want to uh acknowledge or have their boss be aware of how much AI can actually do that they're getting paid for today.

Peter Porebski 10:28

Yeah, I assume that they're just taking credit for it. They're like, look at these crazy emails I'm writing, or these presentations I'm making, or you know, slideshows or whatever. Like, and the boss, maybe you know, because we're still in this stage where maybe not everybody knows the capabilities, they naively might be assuming wow, so and so is is doing stepping up and doing so much and not even thinking that it took them 15 minutes on chat GPT. I mean, as long as you remember to remove the M dashes, then uh then we're okay. Smart to do it. But I mean, that's what I wonder a lot of times is like, are people just not saying anything? They're not lying, but it's it's an error, it's an omission. They're just here's a bunch of stuff that I did, don't worry about how I did it.

Pete Newsome 11:08

I I have to say, I I I saw a post on LinkedIn this morning, and it was from someone downplaying AI's impact on jobs, and this post was so clearly written straight out of chat GPT. I mean, the the second line at it was uh you know, it's not X but Y comment, you know, and I was like, dude, what what are you doing? You're you're you're making the case poorly, but you're you're you're you're contradicting your yourself, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:35

So they have to pace themselves. I um it's and generally speaking, I saw a situation not too long ago where about three years ago this employee was consistently in the pit for performance, and now all of a sudden they're doing the work of about three or four employees.

Pete Newsome 11:51

So so to that point, so that we just had a comment. So thank you for this. And if you're listening and you're you're with us, more comments, the better. That makes the show much more interesting. Um uh AI is an assistant, but if I prove it, you know, it doesn't matter if it's chat, but GP Dow is uh he corrected himself, say it doesn't matter, right? Um, or or Brenda recovering from the night's activities. Okay, whatever Brenda was doing, maybe she was at the corporate 5k last night, a little too long, having too much fun. But I I agree with that. Uh but I think companies are going to look at the work that's being done and decide if if I don't have to pay someone to do it and worry about how they come in the next day, what's going on in their life, all the social things, and you're an HR person, right? So you are in the middle of this because you know you live in the drama. Nobody likes drama, no company except for you, right? Your income relies on drama. But but do you know any employer who wants that? Clearly not.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

No, no, I I I the the clients I speak with, they're encouraging their employees to get to know it and to use it because they do expect more, right? Because now that tool is there, and then what they're doing is they're not relying on the employees to buy the software, they're buying the enterprise level, uh, which is pretty expensive, like between 100 and$300 a month for their employees. And if they're making that investment into resources, they do expect some return on investment above and beyond what's happened before. Now, my question to those leaders is what so because I've i I've had some leaders that will say, No, I don't want them using AI, I'm paying them for the work that they do, not for the work a robot does. And the question that posed to to them is wait, what are you looking for? What are you paying for? The work that they're doing or the output? Yeah, because if the output is the same or better, who cares how they're doing it? As long as they're being safe with it, then an update, uh I'll put into Chat GPT some sensitive data, right? Because that's still a little bit worrisome to some organizations. But the question I pose to them is look, this this technology is evolving really quickly, and and it's it's it's not going it, it is going to be a part of our daily lives, so we might as well get used to the output and not who's using what and focus on what you're paying and what the return on investment you're getting for that output.

Pete Newsome 14:27

Yeah, I mean, I well look at look at what Meta's doing. If you heard about that yet, they're recording keystrokes, they're learning everything that's happening. And why do you think that is, right? It's not to promote the employees who are using it, it's not to give bigger bonuses. Yeah, the employees are in the most literal sense training the AI to do their job, and this is happening. This is not altruistic behavior, right? This is a company looking to figure out how to maximize profits. And so the question is, is that how they should behave? Is there is there any moral or ethical reason why a company shouldn't be doing that? I mean, this is this is quite a um a change in how work happens and how employees are are being monitored in the uh in every possible way now.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

If if Meta is doing that and there isn't a mass exodus, I I would wonder how how how good at their job they're being to send the AI that's being trained bad information so it fails in the future, right? Because I mean it it's it's we see that writing on the wall, and I'm assuming they see that writing on the wall. So why would they participate in that, right? If they know that's eventually gonna pip them out of a job later on.

Peter Porebski 15:49

Well, it almost sounds like they all have a choice, you know. Their meta's gonna do it regardless. It's kind of the next step beyond, you know, how a lot of these the graphic designers and stuff would complain that the AI, the is their its generation was being trained on their art without paying them. Just and you know, once it's scraped it all up, it's it can replicate art styles, it can do this, and people were complaining. They're like, Well, why am I doing this? And it's now tra it's I'm training my replacement, and now this is the next step where you know developers, their coding, their keystrokes are being tracked to train their replacement. You know, it's it's a it's a bad road, I feel like for a lot of these people because they you know they're kind of stuck.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Well, it was switch, right? The the the responsibilities are going to switch. Going back how we send somebody to the moon all with hand calculations, right? Back then you had to know how to do all that calculations, but now to do the same thing, you just have to know how to be be good at Excel and how to be good with a computer. So I'm anticipating in 10, 15 years, there's going to be a need for somebody to be a really good architect, really good engineer for AI prompting. But I don't even know how that's going to be because when you say self, you say 10, 15 years.

Pete Newsome 17:02

That that's that's an eternity. Yeah. One of the one of the most extreme quotes. So we see these opposing views, right? Or I think of as very conflicting narratives on AI is going to displace jobs, is AI is going to create jobs. And we we've seen recently in the past week the Bank of America CEO who back in December said nothing to worry about this week with layoffs, very much something to worry about, right? So it took him a matter of four months to pull a 180. And the um the CEO of Verizon went on record to say he predicts up to 30 layoffs in or unemployment as a result of this in the next two to five years. Two to five. Now and people hear that and say, no way. Why would he say it, right? I mean, this is like you know, he's gonna have to have to answer to that at some point if he's very wrong about it. So even if it's just directionally correct, this is this is a huge concern.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Honestly, team, I think the people who are most worried about it are the people who've experienced professional lives without it. I think the people who are in college right now who are going to be in the workforce in the next five years are not going to have an issue with it because they've been using this as college, they don't know a time without it. So that's what I'm saying. The people who are the older career folks who are at towards the end of their career, they there will be or admit, they will be the ones who will be afraid because they they fear their job is going to be replaced. Whereas the people who don't know any different are are that's gonna be their common theme. So I think I think this is a temporary scare. And I think in five years, like you said, we're going to have a different take on it. We're not gonna see it any different on how much we use email today versus the U.S. Postal Service.

Peter Porebski 19:00

Well, the issue with the young people is that they can't, you know, get it their foot in the door to begin with because the companies have gotten rid of these entry-level positions.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

I get that, I get that.

Pete Newsome 19:09

So that's going all right. We're gonna pro you're on record now. I'm on record every week with this. Peter and I already have have have have a plan to in December to see who's more right. I think there's going to be a lot of um lot of disruption between now and the end of the year. He doesn't think it's going to be as extreme, and you're you're looking 10 years out, so you're you're you think we're fine.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Well, I mean, yeah, I'm looking, you're right. 10 years is an eternity, and the way this is evolving so quickly. I mean, look, I talked to to to Claude, my my AI person. Look at that person, my AI assistant. I you know, I'm talking to them like an intern, right? I just having a conversation with them, and and it's really because I use Whisper. Have you guys heard of that that that Whisper app? Yeah, so I use that, and I'm having these casual conversations, and I start thinking, man, in in no time, this is going to be like a little R2D to a C3P or unit, and we're in Star Wars now, right? Because you know, you got Elon putting together these robots, just upload some kind of AI to it, and next thing you know, you're gonna have that kind of an assistant.

The New Market For AI Skills

Pete Newsome 20:16

So that's happening. All right, so let's move on to the next story. Job searches for AI roles are up 11x since Chat GPT came out. So 11x. 11x. That's indeed data that they published this week. Overall, job search activity is is roughly flat from 22 uh 2022 levels, but people are clearly wanting to get in this space, so they're they're heeding your advice, right? Get involved, get in the game with AI.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah, yeah, they should. I mean, they it's it's it's otherwise they're gonna be obsolete later on.

Pete Newsome 20:49

They are now how many? So they they publish this data too. How many job postings, though, do you think call for AI right now? Because you you you said that it was significant.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

70.

Pete Newsome 20:58

She said, indeed, data doesn't show that.

Peter Porebski 21:00

It shows that um only five about five percent of all postings mention AI or an or an adjacent skill right now, which I I find you know, a major thing versus you know automation as a general term in a in a job posting, which I could see most jobs, you know, white college jobs particularly having using automation tools, whatever, maybe not explicitly stating AI, but if you read between the lines, that's what it's asking. Um, I have not seen too many jobs that are explicitly like an AI just focus role that like AI is in the title, or it's not as common of a, you know, you're still using kind of our older job titles with maybe a bullet point thrown in there.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Well, see, and and and and that and that's what the speaker was saying. She was saying not not necessarily that they have to be AI, but in part of the of the um of the uh a skill set that they did have some kind of AI experience in there. I mean, I don't think it was a uh deal break. Or anything like that. But I just I was there and I'm like, I looked it up myself. I'm like, dang it, look at that. Two or three job postings. They say, you know, um uh um AI experiment, AI prompting experience preferred.

Pete Newsome 22:11

And uh she was right, but so it's definitely you know desired by employers. So because ZipRecruiter also has a survey that they published this week that says 76% or job seekers who use AI are twice as likely to land an offer. So anyone who's on the job market who sees or hears that should pay close attention. If you haven't, and and and look, you shouldn't rely on your employer to introduce that to you. We've also seen data that shows you workers are only using it if their managers are supporting it at work, right? Or at least now we know that many aren't telling their manager what they're doing. So that's that's different. Maybe they just aren't admitting it. But for anyone in the workforce, anyone who's going to be in the workforce or for more than the next few years should be taking it upon themselves to teach, uh, to understand AI, how to use it to elevate your job and and your work and be aware of what's happening. This is not a time to stick your head in the sand.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

And and I gotta say this, and it's not just white-collar workers, neither. It's not now. It initially I thought it was going to be only you know jobs that we do in the office, dealing with computers, digital stuff. And I thought manual labor wasn't gonna be touched at all. So I can talk about this because he told me I could. I did have a client uh about a year ago. We were having this conversation, he owns a roofing company, and he's like, That's not gonna touch us at all. And I'm like, Yeah, I agree with you. I think we're we're the ones who who are gonna be in trouble. And then about five months later, he went to a conference in Vegas, and he's like, Ricky, you have to see this. And he showed me this video. It's this company that puts this thing like this huge machine on a roof. You just have to put in some information and it replaces shingles and it lays them out in front. Of course it does. I'm like, oh my God! So it's coming for every job. It just white cowler first, but the manual labor is going to be later on.

Pete Newsome 24:09

But just think about that. The company who solves that problem first, you you get it rid of employees and all the expenses and challenges, you get rid of the liability risk. I mean, that alone is massive. I mean, companies like ours, we don't staff for jobs like that, they're too risky, the liability is too high, so we wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole. And companies who do, they have to pay through the nose for that. So this is it's it is inevitable, and it just makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yeah, it does. It does. I mean, I I I started to use it in my personal life now. My credit card statements, and I'm like, hey, help me analyze how I can cut some some some expenses. Five seconds. There it is.

Pete Newsome 24:57

Stop buying Star Wars stuff. That's your problem. I can just do that for I can do that analysis for you right now.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

I'm gonna push back on that. That is my advice. I'm good.

Amazon Tests Bot-Only Interviews

Pete Newsome 25:06

If you you just need to expand the view of what's behind you, and we can we can answer that question. We don't need chat GPT for that. But all right, so here's one more AI. We can move on from the AI world, we can stay there all day, of course. Yeah, um, Amazon. Amazon is now using AI to conduct job interviews with no human involvement at all. So start to finish sourcing, screening, hiring. They don't mention sourcing uh specifically, but I'm sure they're using it for that too. No human in the loop. Yeah, what do you think? Um Peter.

Peter Porebski 25:41

I I mean, I I feel like this is uh it's an inevitable line that was gonna get crossed. Um, and I understand people like, well, it's just seasonal workers. They're just trying to basically get as many warehouse people in there as possible. It's an easy interview, so AI is only taking over these ones. I can see it. This is just the you know the first first step. It's going to go farther, it's gonna go farther until you know. I think job seekers push back. And I've talked to job seekers, and they're like, I'm I'm okay with AI being part of it, but if a company is not gonna invest at a person in me at all, why should I care about that company? And I guess maybe so, maybe that's the only saving grace is it's gonna be it's making the the job, the candidate employer relationship kind of transactional, very transactional. That's a good point. And I and I know Pete, you're gonna say, well, it should be transactional if they pay you money, you work there, but I how can you expect an employee to care about your company and not do just the bare minimum that they're paid for at all? If they're not just all right, all right, hold on.

Pete Newsome 26:48

That's as that is not what I would say about that, but I I might say it about what's happening with recruiting in this respect with Amazon. So you're Amazon, right? You are one of the most sought-after employers in the world, and you're in the power seat right now. And so I if if you're implying they may not be one day, I I would I would challenge that, right? But I also would say how you get in the door doesn't necessarily resemble what life is going to be once you're in. No one likes interviewing, no one likes the job search process, nobody on the job seeker side that I know of would say, yes, this is something I I'm happy I get to do. So if there are efficiencies that be can can be created through this, is that a bad thing? I mean, or could you look at that and say, other they're just making my life easy without having to jump through a bunch of uh hoops that that some humans putting me through?

Peter Porebski 27:46

I don't know, Ricky, what do you what do you think about you know video inter video interviews, one-sided interviews, that type of thing?

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Well, I it's I think Pete, you and I talked about this about a year ago, where I was I was helping a client, a client was didn't understand why some people would interview, then drop off, interview, then uh then drop off, they kept being ghosted. So I'm like, let me see what your competitors are doing. So I created a fake profile, I applied for a job, and someone scheduled me for an interview via via um um uh uh uh email, you know, it because I just wanted to see what they were doing, and I started this interview. It took me about a minute and a half for me to realize I was not talking to a human being. That's scary. That's scary because he was asking me questions. I'm asking, you know, I'm I'm asking questions back in. You know how I am. I threw a joke in there and then it paused and then it laughed, and the laugh was so off sync. I'm like, Are you human? And they're like, I am not, I'm an assistant, blah blah. I'm like, wow. So that threw me for a loop. And I have a buddy of mine who owns a business in in in Maryland, and he just got he owns a business for home inspections, and he just bought this AI system that that that follows leads for him. They call people and they and and they get all this information, and they don't have deep conversations, but the conversation the machine has is good enough to get the all the information that he's going to need so he can follow up with that call. It's it's coming, it's coming, and it's happening now. Now, I'm I'm with Peter on this because to me, you know, how I am and and how I do business, I want to keep the human human and I want to keep the human interaction human. And and I get what he's saying, where you know, if if if some people who want to be really connected with an organization, they want the organization to respect them as a human being, that could be a turnoff.

Pete Newsome 29:44

In Amazon's defense, and to clarify what I said, these are Peter mentioned it quickly, these are temporary workers, these are these are seasonal workers, warehouse workers. So your job's not going to involve much of a human connection. I mean, that's the reality of it, right? You are there to do a very cookie-cutter job. That's that's entirely different than the type of jobs that we recruit for, right?

Peter Porebski 30:06

Where's every slope, you know?

Pete Newsome 30:10

Well, it yes, it it is that, but it's already underway. And I I see AI and recruiting as an opportunity to allow qualified candidates to match with human recruiters much faster and more efficiently. That's how we use it. So it's not doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, but clearly Amazon is taking that direction that is happening.

Peter Porebski 30:32

I like, I mean, I I am all for the hybrid approach. Like I I like Ricky, you said your your uh your friend and his company is qualifying leads, getting that basic information that is that is a perfect use for AI, but then having it go over to a human who then can kind of do the nuance. That's how I kind of view a lot of these things as working best. That's how I believe recruiting is it works best, doing that initial pre-screen and then a recruit. If you if you you know are good there, have a recruiter. I just don't like having no humans in the entire process all the way to start. I think there should still be some touch in there.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

You're afraid of the Terminator, aren't you? Just say it. You're thinking about it. Just say that.

Peter Porebski 31:14

Arnold Schwarzenegger is gonna be my uh my recruiter. Get to the office, yeah.

Pete Newsome 31:21

So so if you're with us, let us know where you weigh in on that. If you're a job seeker, do you care? Right, is it important to you? Uh, do you mind working with AI? If you're a hiring manager or an or recruiter. Well, Pete, let me ask you.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

So so so let's let's let's fast forward. Let's say you're you just graduated college, right? With your mindset right now, if if you were being interviewed by a bot, would that bother you?

Pete Newsome 31:48

It depends. It depends on the scenario. It bothers me in what context, right? You'd have to answer that or ask it a little more specifically for me to answer. But um, I what would bother me the most is lack of response and lack of movement as a job seeker. So our AI screening tool, which I don't think we've talked uh with you about yet, uh, will look at res. So the number of job uh complaints, the number of complaint of job seekers, as we all know, is get being ghosted, right? You send your resume, it goes into a black hole, you never hear anything. Nobody likes that. We can all agree there. But our we have a tool now that will screen the resume based on the job search criteria, match it up with what's on the resume. Just like a human would do, right? Looking at a resume. We're not talking about once you engage with someone, you're saying all you have is objective information on a resume, on an application. You know what you're looking for, does it match? If yes, you engage with the person, if not, you move on. Well, most people get very upset and are bothered by not hearing anything. I applied, I you know, nothing came back. Well, our tool, if the candidate is not a good fit on paper, we'll let them know why. We'll let them know why. 100% know why.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Uh so if so, real quick, if people will look up work day versus I forgot what the guy's name was, uh, it's a lawsuit for that very same thing. Uh, because he applied like 117 times, and each time he got denied, and he had he happened to be a protector class, over 40, everything you can throw under the sun, and now there's a lawsuit for disparate um uh uh uh impact. And it's we don't have to go down that road because what where where we see an issue with recruiting and AI is the the employment and labor laws for recruiting and for discrimination hasn't caught up with how AI is doing right now. So now you you've seen a lot of lawsuits out there where some recruiters are relying solely on on AI to um to uh um to screen applicants. One example that some one that I know of is I'm sure you guys have heard of notebook LM? No book LM. And uh I know one person who was up who uploaded the uh the job description and like 50 resumes and says, based on this, who should I hire? And and uh, who should I interview? And it came back. I reviewed it and I'm like, look, this is going to be an issue for you, right? So you may want to have a little bit of oversight. So, anyway, uh it's not to go too deep down that rabbit hole, but the laws have to catch up, and we all know how the federal government works, they're not quick about these things.

Pete Newsome 34:33

Well, yeah, states are trying to apply their own laws to this, and and I I I think you know, keeping up is an impossible task for any government body, but let's talk about bias for a second because that's an interesting topic that you raise. Is is there a human who isn't biased consciously or not?

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Um we're all biased, we all are. I mean, let's be honest, right? It's we all are. It's it's the question is do we act on it? Right? And and and that's what we have to be careful with. Um, we have to see, as a human being, we can be conscious of our biases. We we acknowledge them. I mean, let's be honest, right? If we went down a bad neighborhood, you and I right now. I was gonna say that exactly.

Peter Porebski 35:17

Are you biased against a shady alley?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

We're gonna click, right? We're gonna lack ourselves without anything happening. But that that's us as human beings, where where we have to be careful is is we we just have to acknowledge them and make sure that we're being as fair as possible, uh, ethically, and especially with the law.

Pete Newsome 35:36

So I'm I'm gonna tell a very true true story that is less than 24 hours old that happened last night. Peter's gonna know immediately where I'm going with this because we were together. We were at the the corporate 5K event, downtown Orlando. You know, every company in town is there. It's a big party, it's a lot of fun. You wear matching shirts and the whole thing. So it's a great night, as you know. Someone approached our tent and asked what we do. I said, We're a staffing company. And he said, I'm looking to hire someone right now. And I said, Wow, this is great, right? He said, I'm looking for an executive assistant. Ideally, I what I really want is is is is a really cute lady uh in between 30 and 40. And I was like, Let me stop you. That's a human. This is a human, right? Who's trying to hire? He's telling me this. I'm like, you realize you're saying this out loud, right? This is what he tells me. I'm like, listen, that is not criteria we apply in our recruiting process, and you probably shouldn't say that ever again. But the point is, this is this is real, and when you compare that to AI, the AI is only biased if whoever wants it to be. And I can assure you that our system is not, and so I would make the case that AI removes bias, doesn't add to it.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

And and so so here's what I'm saying, and this is the part. So I'm I'm gonna warn you here. This is the part that every single business owner I bring this up to pushes back on because they shouldn't understand how weird the law works. So disparent impact. What that means is so, for example, let's say um you use your AI tool and you scrub 50 resumes and it gives you uh um uh let's say 40 people back, right? So that's that's that's 40 out of 50, right? If that 40, right, it's not it, it's it's one race or over another, and you won't know that until you interview them. You would not know that, right? But if it's one race over another and there's a disparate impact, then we may be liable for a system that that that that whether we have a policy or a process or not, we're going to be legally liable because the process we have or the process we we don't have has an impact against a protected class. It's not fair. That's even if you don't know what the per the class is, even if you don't know, it it it's that's what makes it an issue, and that's why the laws have to have to catch up. Same thing with uh with uh with the Tesla. I told uh um I told Pete that I got a Tesla uh about a year ago, and uh I have that self-driving feature, and I think it's amazing, by the way. It's amazing, but even if you let the car do the driving, it gets into an accident. You weren't driving, but it's still your fault because the law hasn't caught up. The the law says you're responsible for it.

Pete Newsome 38:37

Give me a real-world example of how that could happen with an AI tool that isn't programmed to discriminate at all is simply matching work experience requirements with uh yeah, which what with what's on the uh job description.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Okay, so I so now we're going into this part where I have to say I'm not an attorney, right? So what I'm saying is not legal advice or anything like that. I'm just an HR guy, right? Um, a great example, an easy example. Um, let's say we have a hundred applicants, a hundred interviews, right? And then out of uh um out of out of everything, we only pull out people who are white, or we only pull out people who are um uh under 40. We wouldn't know that in the interview process, we wouldn't, right? Or nor would a human recruiter. No, no, correct, agreed 100%. We would not know that, right? But what we have to do is once we find out after the fact and we see this, then we have to take a look at our processes and say, how can we minimize that impact as much as possible? And if somebody decides to bring a lawsuit and say, I didn't get selected because I'm this protected class, and then it goes that far into the uh into the whole legal process, they're going to take a look at our processes, and what are we doing to make sure that we cast a wider net? Because remember, it's not a quota system, it's not about a quota, it's about casting a white net. And if they see that the only thing we're using is this one tool, the company could be liable. It's unfair.

Pete Newsome 40:12

I know I just don't see that playing out in in real life in practicality.

Peter Porebski 40:17

I would ask, yeah, how would the candidate prove? I mean, say every interview has or every resume has the name completely removed in all identifying detail. How would they prove that there was any discrimination at all when that's the problem this resume is the same as that resume?

SPEAKER_02 40:29

That's the problem because it it's it's as a recruiter, we cannot see those things, we're not supposed to see those things, but the system we have in place uh focus only only on the skill set, on the experience, and that's what we should only be be focusing on. But if it just happens that we interview only white people, only Hispanics, only Black people, it becomes an issue as far as the uh the law is concerned. The law has to change. I agree with that, but um look up workday, workday lawsuit AI. And but and that's happening right now because something similar.

Pete Newsome 41:04

I'm aware of the suit, I don't know the specific details, but I I can say in that specific regard, there's there's no difference between AI and how just recruiting happens, anyway, right? If you're saying it's coincidental, which I is another way of phrasing what you're describing, that we picked out 100 resumes based on the experience matching the job requirements, and they all happen to be a certain fill in the blank. Well, that that yeah, I would say both of them.

Peter Porebski 41:32

I mean, about 100 people, 80 80 of the 100 people that applied happen to be white, there's gonna be a high chance that maybe the people that you pick out are all statistically over time that that's gonna normalize, right?

Pete Newsome 41:43

I mean, that's just the way math works. So I I think that's interesting. And I'll look up here, Speed. What do you think I have all those gray hairs?

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I mean, I'm 25 years old.

Why Hiring Feels Harder Now

Pete Newsome 41:52

All right, well, you you HR people, let's, let's give me, let me give you another thing that this is your Society for Human Resource Management, you mentioned earlier, Sherm, put out a report, their 2026 talent trends report. And the line that caught my attention that jumps out at me as a staffing company owner is that 68% of HR professionals face difficulty recruiting full-time employees. What are they doing wrong? That's my question. Does that surprise you to hear that statistic? It does. It does. Um these are your people, Ricky. You have to you have to be accountable for them. It does. It does.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

I'm not their king.

Peter Porebski 42:38

We're asking him.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

No, um, look, um, I I I see how that can be difficult, right? Uh, I mean, look, these days it's it's easier to find a job outside of a W2W-2 employment. It really is easy. So to convince somebody to say, come on over, work for me, I'll tell you what to do, I'll give you this paycheck. It's especially with the newer generation that are finding really uh interesting ways how to make their own money. I I honestly believe that organizations right now are competing for talent, not against other organizations, but against independents because I'm seeing it every single day. I know right now, two teachers who quit their job with by the way, an organization that would give them a pension, something that hardly exists these days, to be Uber drivers and Instacart because they make just enough, if not more money than as a teacher. I mean, just stop and think about that for a second. Teachers with a pension.

Pete Newsome 43:38

But but I will I will say when I talk to my peers across the country in staffing, I don't hear anyone say recruiting is harder uh than it was a year ago. The only time recruiting was a challenge in my 20 years since Four Corner has existed was in 2022. during the hiring boom because hiring became very competitive. Every company was hiring. Many will argue they overhired during that period, right? Uh there's Star Wars. And so I would say other than that, one period that that's never there's never a reason recruiting should be difficult unless you're doing something wrong. And I I firmly believe that.

Peter Porebski 44:27

We hear are more like keeping people or finding you know good reliable people, not like getting them in the door, but having people that you actually want in the door. And then maybe in that teaching case, Ricky, it's the people it's it's the ones who are complaining it's hard to find people are jobs that are maybe overworking and underpaying their people. So nobody wants to work there in any way. Hence doing something wrong. Yeah.

Pete Newsome 44:51

I mean if you're not paying enough if your if your requirements are unrealistic if your work environment is such that no one wants to work in yes but that's on you. That's not indicative of the market. And so I see this and I'm I scratch my head because also there's data that comes out every month. We were talking about this yesterday from the NFIB the National Federation of Independent Business. It's a small it's basically a group of small businesses. This organization's been around for dozens of years uh it's a big organization. The number one complaint of small businesses is they can't find qualified talent. And I just I'm like call call call us right here what's wrong in this equation.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Now I have another take on that because I did a presentation in HR Florida last year and I presented a topic called ADR attraction development of retention right and and where I see an issue with uh recruiters or organization that still have a recruiting uh marketing process that's 20 years old that strategy doesn't work today 40 years ago it it it it's it it worked maybe right because if you offer benefits if you offer a pension that's what people who were in the market 40 years ago that's what they wanted right nobody knows what a pension is today so what what what we have to do is we have to understand all right we have a new workforce we have to understand what they want what attracts them and use that bait the bait from 40 years ago is not going to work. So one of the ways that I saw that I'm working with some clients is don't just post an indeed go on TikTok go on YouTube post your story post who you are people are attracted to what the company is what the company stands for and if those values align once you got them in there then develop them and then figure out how to retain them and if you can retain them that don't belong then have an honest conversation on why they should leave but but why why would you why do you think that 68% of HR professionals say that hiring is difficult right now more than half said that it's harder than it was a year ago. And it I I just don't see that in the data I don't see that in our practice I don't see that um from discussions with peers i'm I am truly scratch my head over that if I take again I don't have any any any data to back this up other than my own observations and what I deal with on a on a on a daily basis is an actual antiquated recruiting process. Posting and praying and and and that doesn't work right because maybe 40 50 years ago um the idea was if as a business owner and I have an opportunity for you you should be thankful that you have this opportunity in front of you that that rationale is out the window because now it's it's it's it's an employees market in in some sense because there's different options out there.

Peter Porebski 47:55

You think they're getting overwhelmed with just like you know applications and I mean we're in we I think we as a company are on kind of the cutting edge of the recruiting process. So I think maybe this you know when I see these these numbers they're talking to like you said companies that have antiquated processes maybe a small internal recruiting team. So I can see I guess where they maybe view it as difficulty when they post a job they get 500 applicants that they have to sift through and they don't have these tools to kind of help them out.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

So maybe that's that's kind of how I interpreted the difficulty is actually dealing with the job market as it is currently and and and and the candidate attention span it it's is shorter than ever it's I was dealing with a client two years ago that had six interviews for one person six interviews and and I'm like dude if if you're a process for a single can oh wow so I'm like dude if if if if you can't find what you're looking for at the interview number three you have the wrong person. You have the wrong person because the the people who you want who's got the skill set that you want are going to have options and they're not going to be patient to wait but you know who will have the patience to wait the people who are crappy enough that nobody else would hire and they will go through that process. Would you say then that the clear answer is you need a staffing partner I think is that where a hundred no seriously I know what you did there but you're right you need a staffing partner to come in and say let us recruit for you let us tell your story because if your job is to install roofs the last thing you want to do is focus on a recruiting strategy.

Faster Screening With Human Follow-Up

Pete Newsome 49:35

That's not your forte yeah you beat you beat me to that analogy right in theory I could install I could change out the tiles on my roof but I'm not going to do it right because it's not what I'm I'm good at. And to that point you know you you asked me how I would feel about being recruited by uh AI uh exclusively now exclusively I wouldn't want that right I would want a human i my take on it is and what we put into practice every day is that RAI allows qualified candidates to match with recruiters faster. And I'm biased of course but I think that's how it should be used.

Peter Porebski 50:13

Peter, before Ricky answers, what is our current satisfaction rate of candidates who interact with RAI roughly so roughly right now we're sitting at around 91% of candidates who report that they had a positive experience with it. So and we um and to kind of talk about like what you had mentioned earlier like we have the option if somebody is uncomfortable they can request a human review. So we we we've made it very clear that this is a first step in the process this is just a a screening and I mean the average time right now I think is people spend about 15 minutes just answering basic questions screening through if they match um it depends on the job but you know say 80% of the criteria of a job and the the recruiter will get a message they'll call them and they're getting back to these candidates within 48 hours a human is talking to them wow okay from out from applying to a job.

Pete Newsome 51:10

Ricky if you apply at nine o'clock at night and you want to have a conversation then to be screened to move on to the next level to see if you can interact yeah if you if you're qualified to engage with a human recruiter and be considered for the role you can do it. So working parents wow people who who just don't have time during business hours I I I see it as nothing but positive and the the market is responding well to it.

Peter Porebski 51:36

Well we've made an effort to be very clear about this is like this is not something that's supplanting a recruiter this is literally just to make the process even better for you job seeker and people seem to be responding positively to it.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

That's awesome that and and and I will go one step further because this is something that I tell all of my clients is if you pull out all the stops for for recruiting telling a story and giving them a great experience don't stop doing that when they come on board right because then you're guaranteeing them to leave before their 90 day um um intro period.

Small Business Momentum And Retention

Pete Newsome 52:13

So uh that's something I'm really big on because I've seen organizations um in in places that I've worked where they really focus hard on the recruitment process they bring them in and then once they're in they forget about them all the cheerleading has stopped and nothing has happened and then they wonder where they leave uh in in in 90 days before they get a return on investment so so would you be opposed talked about that we can't help you know once a person we can make it a great experience through onboarding but you know retention is that's the the company needs to pay attention to that then yeah yeah Ricky would you be opposed to it would you mind engaging with the the robot for the for the interview process so I'm a geek I would love that I would love that yeah it it's I think I think for me um if if if the bot is engaging enough right and he's gonna tell jokes and have it laugh at his yeah yeah have it laugh faster don't pause for two seconds and make you feel finally someone to laugh at your jokes it's it's it's made for you that's exactly what I need so no i i wouldn't be opposed to it i mean i think it it's i'm i'm i'm a futuristic kind of guy and i get i get excited about these things so no i will love it my mom no she's like i don't want to talk to arturito that's exactly what she said so so uh we we only we're running out of time having you here we we burned through time quickly no surprise it's been great the no that's a good thing um so if you're with us you have any questions ricky the hr guy is here with us or if you have any questions about anything we've talked about or have an opinion weigh in but let's talk about some data that's come out this week uh before we close so a couple things small businesses are carrying the job market right now without small business hiring we would be negative potentially on the year we've seen a lot of big cuts is that surprise you at all to see that so small businesses say they're having a uh difficult time hiring but the data shows those who are successful are are really carrying the load yeah so this is something that's about 15 20 years old and in and right now small businesses have a bigger opportunity to attract more more talent because of social media right they've learned how to capitalize on social media they learned that social media will give them because again before social media the only organizations we heard about are the ones that had big marketing budget named brands yeah yeah name brands like Nike Apple IBM all those things and now I mean my the the pizza shop down the street has about a hundred thousand views and be because they do a good job in talking about what kind of pizza they have right so I think um uh again no no no formula just from what I have seen from my experiences with my clients that the reason they're that they have that kind of success is because they have capitalized on how social media is so relevant these days with the younger generation that's my take on it okay kind of makes sense too also that I mean that the smaller companies are the the ones that don't have a recruiter full time and they're made they're a pizza shop so now they got to hire some some people like how do I go about doing that how do I you know even start I don't have a HR department it's just you know John our manager who's gonna do something yeah yeah so all also this week unemployment claims just hit a one year low so there's a lot of perception the job market is unhealthy but that's a good sign that that's real data unhealthy you said it is unhealthy yes okay so unhealthy from the perspective of people not having jobs people yeah that the yeah so we know unemployment number you know is not historically high it's actually historically low but it really is a matter of your role in the job market that that's what seems to be clear depending on what you do there are a lot of jobs uh where no one is hiring well not no one but it it hiring isn't very prevalent right now so in some areas it it always comes down to supply and demand right now I would venture to guess that a lot of people right now um are not moving or not making any moves right now because they i mean things are getting more expensive these days and they're afraid to make that kind of a shift with with how much of their dollars going away so I'm wondering how many of those folks that are not moving are happy in their jobs right uh are they happy are they thinking about leaving what are they thinking about doing and I'm also waiting like wait and see is kind of we are we know a lot of people are in this wait and see like that's kind of how companies are acting that's how people are acting yeah the yeah low hire low fire in environment right now except for the big companies but you're right i mean all all of the data and and including our own survey shows that employees are worried about what's ahead and so they are staying at their jobs more frequently than they have uh over the past few years yeah because i'm i'm assuming if if if if if the economy had a bigger uptick there'll be more movement I would think right it it's so i mean it i i would love to see a survey where it shows how happy people are but even then i don't know if how many people would answer truthfully out of fear that well we so our survey asks that we have a job satisfaction index and it actually increased uh from q1 to q2 um indicating that employers employees are generally happy i mean they this is clearly an anonymous survey there's no there's no way for for the their answers to be tied to the individuals the it's good news right so i mean we hear a lot of gloom and doom about the job market i we talked a lot about how the anxiety about the job market but their actual job yeah people are happy with that's it that's that's how it you can sum it up right it's an anxious workforce but for the most part everyone's happy with how things are right now yeah i i it it's and and honestly i hope i hope that number keeps getting better the more we evolve in the in the in the hiring process the more we evolve in in creating a work environment that people really want to be there above and beyond a paycheck because because that's what you want right you don't want an employee that keeps looking at their watch all right it's 455 456 five o'clock i'm already an i4 on 501 right that's not who you want who you want is the employee that you the business owner walk out at 9 p.m because you had to and you're like why is pete still here dude go home go home because they care about the brand again that's why i bring it back for organizations who are looking to really find the good talent and you know what Pete this is this is something I took from you you taught me this you taught me because you you shot me when when I first met you years ago and okay we're talking about four corner no no this is a good thing you said Ricky I try to talk people out of a job and I'm like why the heck would you do that and I'm like oh my god that makes so much sense it makes sense because if you try to talk them out of the job and they're still interested in that position they're interested for the right reasons and they tend to stick around more so you taught me a vessel I want to thank you for that because I use that every day now it's true right I mean that's something that that when you're in staffing you realize that it's not about getting an interview for someone it's not about getting an offer it's not about that offer being accepted and it's not even about them walking in the door on the first day it's about them lasting. And so it is always best to paint the worst case scenario right and if we still like each other you know the meme from a couple years ago right if you didn't like me at this you don't deserve me at that so let's tell the worst case scenario and and if it if it still looks good at the end of that well then it's probably the right fit.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

So uh but I appreciate you saying that that's uh that's that's I use it every day and and some clients are like what are you doing? I'm like trust me right if if if if if they're still around you show them what the job is about you're like it's this this this and that but you're gonna be fulfilled right you're gonna get a uh um a lot more no's but that one yes it's gonna stick around it's gonna stick around and and that's worth its weight in gold yeah so yeah I love it well that's a great way to close because there's a good chance you'll say something not nearly as nice to me if we say next time I'll leave that for next time well I hope you'll come back this is fun it's much better to have you here for inviting me guys I really appreciate it.

Peter Porebski 1:00:40

Of course Peter anything else before we close or we cover enough today I think that was that was good. Let's end on a positive note from from Ricky perfect. Well thanks for joining us everyone have a great weekend everyone have a good one guys