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Understanding Employment Labor Laws: Insights From HR Expert Ricky Baez
Need help navigating the labyrinth of employment labor laws? HR consultant Ricky Baez joins us to unravel these complexities and offer practical strategies for business owners. Listeners will discover essential resources like SHRM.org, EEOC.gov, and DOL.gov, and learn the benefits of attending industry conferences and hiring a knowledgeable consultant. Ricky also dispels common misconceptions around employment at will and right-to-work laws, underscoring the importance of understanding legal protections in employment practices.
Effective communication can make or break labor union elections, and Ricky shares compelling stories highlighting this truth. One notable case from a New York City restaurant reveals how language barriers led to misunderstandings about sick pay entitlements, stressing the need for language-appropriate communication tools. Hear how accurate information prevented unionization and why expert guidance is crucial in navigating labor laws. Tune in to gain actionable insights and stay ahead of legal updates in the ever-changing landscape of labor laws!
Additional Resources:
1. 4 Communication Styles in the Workplace and How to Manage Them
2. Let’s Talk About Unions in the Workplace
3. HR Consulting Services
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👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/
👋 FOLLOW RICKY BAEZ ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/
Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com/baezco-blog
Welcome back everyone. I'm speaking today with HR consultant Ricky Baez. Today's topic is employment labor laws. Ricky, how are you today?
Ricky Baez:I am doing great Pete. How about you?
Pete Newsome:I'm doing all right, but, man, I've got to tell you, as a business owner, this one hits really close to home, because when I started my company 20 years ago, one of the things that I struggled with was understanding employment, labor laws and where I'm even supposed to go to get information. Can we just start there?
Ricky Baez:employment, labor laws and where I'm even supposed to go to get information. Can we just start there? Absolutely so it's Pete, I'll tell you this Wikipedia is not it. Wikipedia is not it. Obviously, what comes to people's mind is you know, I can Google it. Right, you can, but then you have to figure out what is credible information and what is not right.
Ricky Baez:So one of the best ways that you can find out exactly what's out there, to keep your finger on the pulse, is go to official websites that vet this information. One of them is SHRMorg, the Society for Human Resource Organizationorg. That's a very good organization and you can trust that any information they put out. They're very good at putting new laws and new statutes out there that affect employment and labor law. That way everybody knows about it. They are really good at making sure that not only they communicate it, but it's understood for anybody that's not an attorney.
Ricky Baez:So I would say SHRM would be the best place to go. That's number one. The second one, because I've got three of them. The second one is go to conferences. Conferences is one of the best ways to share knowledge. You got people from all over the world that come to one area to talk about the same topic, being attacked by 25,000 different points of view. So you can go ahead and just make sure that you go to a conference and send somebody to a conference and bring that information back into the office. The third, and I think it's the easiest one get a consultant. It's just easier to get a consultant to come in who will go to those conferences and will make sure that these new laws and these new statutes are applied to your business appropriately, because that HR consultant will know your business. So that is the best way to stay on top of the new changes.
Pete Newsome:Now, ricky, as an HR guy, I know this may surprise you, but I'm probably not going to conferences learning about labor laws. I know we all like to spend our time that way, but it's not practical for everyone. So there's constant changes. We know that with the law. If I don't have a consultant and I agree with you, by the way, and that's how you and I know each other, of course, because I lean on you for this information but if I didn't have you, where could I go to keep up with changes? Or what's maybe a better way to ask is what's a strategy for keeping up with changes in labor laws?
Ricky Baez:You go to the EEOC website and then you submit your email. That way you get these updates. Here's the problem with that, pete your email. That way you get these updates. Here's the problem with that, pete. Right it's. I would advise it.
Ricky Baez:But the problem is it's they put the actual law out there, right? You're going to need somebody to translate that from legalese to make sense to the average business owner, because it's, at the end of the day, the law. Does not care whether the owner understands the law or not. It is up to the owner, the business owner, and it's their responsibility to understand what the law means. So that's going to cost you more money. Right? Because either you spend the time to filter through everything to see what applies to you, or you get an attorney to do it that's not going to be cheap or you get an HR consultant to do it.
Ricky Baez:So the best way, if you're not going to have a consultant out there, just go into those different websites. And, of course, those websites really depend on how big your business is. Right, because some people think just because they got 10 employees, the laws don't apply. They kind of do right, every level with a 10, 15, 20, even 50 employees, you got different laws that apply to you. That's why I'm saying the best thing to do is get a consultant. But in the absence of that, you just got to make sure you subscribe to those known websites shermorg, the eeocgov or dolgov. That will definitely help you out.
Pete Newsome:Ricky, today's video is filled with surprising things. First we learned not every business owner wants to go to HR conferences, and now I have to say not everyone, not the government. That isn't always clear in their information. So you know these things are surprising to everyone, but let's talk about a different kind of surprise misconceptions of labor laws. What do you see that's commonly misunderstood out there?
Ricky Baez:The biggest one and I don't know if this will surprise you or not is people's understanding of employment at will. Man, let's spend some time on that. People think employment at will and right to work are the same thing. They're not Two very different things. So right to work has more to do with unions, right Employment at will.
Ricky Baez:At the end of the day, what that means is it says that you, as an employer, can fire anybody for whatever reason. That's not protected by law. The biggest misconception is people don't read that last part. That's not protected by law right Now. At the same time, an employee now I'm talking about an employee, not a contractor can leave the organization for no reason whatsoever. 49 out of 50 states in the United States are employment at will. Montana is the only state that is not employment at will. You need a reason both ways. So that to me, that is the biggest misconception and here's what we need to do with that.
Ricky Baez:And here's what I tell all my clients, because they ask me Ricky, if I can fire anybody for any reason, that's not protected by law. Why are you always telling me to document, document every conversation, document every infraction? The reason you should document it is because if you, as an employee, you fire somebody. So, for example, for this particular example, pete, you and I work together, right, and you fire me because I'm a man. I mean you would never do that, right. And you fire me because I'm a man. I mean you would never do that right. But you fire me because I'm a man, right and it's. Or, better yet, you fire me for no reason, no reason whatsoever.
Ricky Baez:I go to the EEOC, I file a complaint and I say he fired me because I'm a guy. Again, that will never happen with just an example, the EEOC. Then they're going to ask you so why did you fire him? What are you going to say? What are you going to say? So now you're stuck right. You want to have a reason documented, because if you don't have a reason, you're going to spend a lot of legal dollars trying to prove yourself right. At the end of the day, you're going to end up on the right side of the law, but it's going to cost you 20 grand in legal fees. Save the money and just document the entire process and you should be good.
Pete Newsome:Let me give you a little twist on that with a question. Let's say I fired you because you were consistently late for work. You know, it, I know it, everyone else on the team knows it, but then you go and make a claim and say I fired you because of age discrimination, for example.
Ricky Baez:Okay.
Pete Newsome:Now, is it safe to say that I'm probably going to win that lawsuit, but I may have to spend a lot of money to get there? Is that why documentation is so important?
Ricky Baez:That's correct. It is. And the reason you are going to be okay is because the burden of proof is on me. I have to show that proof, right Me as a person filing that claim. Right, If I go ahead and start pursuing that and for some reason I got money to get an attorney, you don't have to show that proof, right Me as a person filing that claim. Right, If I go ahead and start pursuing that and for some reason I got money to get an attorney, you now have to get one too, right? So you now have to get one. And then, at the end of everything, if you come out on top, you've got this $20,000 legal bill. Now can you come towards me to recoup that back? Yeah, but what if I've got five bucks to my name? You're still out, Right? So that's why I tell people just make sure you document everything. That it makes it easier for you to defend yourself in case somebody brings some kind of a lawsuit. Right, it's at the end of the day, really, is that simple?
Pete Newsome:I want to understand exactly what you just said about attorneys, because I think it's a universal truth that nobody wants to hear from them, what you just said about attorneys, because I think it's a universal truth that nobody wants to hear from them. What's the best way to avoid?
Ricky Baez:a lawsuit.
Ricky Baez:Document everything and focus just on work, just on their performance output.
Ricky Baez:Do not focus on their personality, do not focus on what they look like, do not focus on what sex they are, if your only focus is how they're performing at work or if your only focus is the ethical violation and nothing about the person, only the action, and you document everything.
Ricky Baez:That is the best way to make sure that you are on the right side of the law in case you get hit with a lawsuit. Right? Because of course you know an attorney like I'm not a lawyer, but a lawyer is bound by an oath that if a client says, hey, this has happened to me, the attorney has a reasonable obligation to help them with that process. They kind of have to believe them reasonably, unless there's a reason not to believe them that might blow up in their face. So when you have that thing out there, you have to make sure that if somebody because lawyers are an expert at raising reasonable doubts, they're expert at that. That is what they're trained to do. You have to make sure that there is no doubt in your process that your case is airtight, and the best way to do it is to document everything and make sure you stay away from personalities and only focus on the infraction, and the infraction only, because anything outside of that are going to have holes poked in court and it's not a pretty sight.
Pete Newsome:Get into the real world. Can you share an example of when you've leveraged your expertise to help one of your clients with the labor law situation?
Ricky Baez:Yes, actually, this was the best example is when I used to be a W-2 employee and I used to be an employee relations manager for a large restaurant chain, and what I did there is they grew so fast, pete, that they did a good job in training leaders on how to be a leader. But unionization stuff stuff with unions wasn't really part of that training program. And when you have a lot of leaders being shown that, a lot of restaurants opening, and then you have some union folks walk in and start making demands, that's a scary situation and this organization was not ready for that. So what they sent me in and my goal is, a, to understand what the employees were complaining about and, b, to teach leaders how to make sure that, if we are going to have a unionization election, how to do it properly, how to do it properly. So here's something that they did not know. Right, in the union world, right, the only thing you need to ratify a contract is if you have an election and 50% of the people that vote, plus one more vote a certain way, that's the vote that wins, plus one more vote a certain way, that's the vote that wins. Now, notice I said 50% of the people that show up. So that means if a restaurant has 300 employees and only 10 people show up to vote, all you need is six people to say yes and it ratifies a contract for the entire 300-person restaurant. So my strategy was is let's not discourage people from voting, let's encourage to vote. Let's encourage them to vote. Let's let them know what benefits they can get. Let's be honest, open and honest of what happens if we get a union. And we got to be careful with that, because the law says I only have a limited way, a limited amount of time or a limited way of explaining that, because there are things we can't do from a leadership perspective. But it's not fair. But the point I'm making here is I encourage everybody to come vote, every single person. The manager's like why, ricky? I'm like because the more people that come out to vote, the less likely they'll get a yes vote, as long as we communicate exactly what it means for us to have a union. And here's what happened. Are you ready for this, pete? This is going to blow your mind. Dude, this is going to blow your mind. I'm ready.
Ricky Baez:This restaurant was in New York City, downtown, right, and the first thing I did I went to the back of the house. So for those of you who don't know how a restaurant, there's the back of the house where everything's cooked. There's a front of the house where everything's served In the back of the house. I'm working with the people in the back and I'm like hey, why? I'm just curious, why do you want a union? The guy's just like well, you know, we don't have any sick pay. The union guy came in here and says that we need sick pay. Darn, it's not giving it to us. I'm not only that. You're in New York City. In New York City, organizations this size are forced to pay out sick pay. You know what happened, pete?
Ricky Baez:95% of the people in the back of the house spoke only Spanish. They didn't know English. They didn't read English. The employee handbook was in English. So I asked the restaurant manager and I'm like how do you communicate? Do you speak Spanish? He's like no, I mean, a paycheck number in English is the same as in Spanish. I'm like okay, that means a good point, I get it, but why don't you have people that speak English? He's like Ricky, hr told me here's another misconception. Hr told me that's an illegal question. I can't ask them if they speak English or Spanish. I'm like stop, it is only an illegal question.
Ricky Baez:If that skillset is not necessary for the job, pitching in the back is dangerous. You need that, you need to know. So let's get that out of your head, please. You can ask if you can speak English. Right, and you can require it because it's necessary for this job. Right, that's the moment.
Ricky Baez:Number two you need to have the employee handbook in Spanish then, because half the people in the back actually most of the back don't understand that. They do get sick pay and these union guys are lying to them, and that's where we got these issues. They do get sick pay and these union guys are lying to them, and that's why we got these issues. Long story short like 150 people showed up right, overwhelmed, overwhelmingly right, no union, and it worked out beautifully. So had I not have had that conversation with the GM, and the GM would have prevented people from coming in right, that would have been disastrous, because if uninformed people come in voting for something they would lie to, all you need is six people. If 10 show up, pete, and then they're in trouble. So that's why I mean that is one example of where it was a great outcome, but it was kind of hard to get there.
Pete Newsome:Well, ricky, from that example and from everything else you shared today, my takeaway is this there's a lot of complexity to employment, labor laws. As a business owner, odds are my time is spent on other things things that are part of the actual business that I'm running and I should rely on an expert, because it's just too deep and too meaningful and too important not to have the right information and the right person giving guidance along the way. So, like I said earlier, that's what I have you for. Everyone should have someone like you in their camp, ricky, to help out. So, thanks for listening today, ask us any questions in the comments and follow us for more Talk to you soon. Have a good one.