After an interview, have you ever wondered if you uncovered the candidate's true potential? Wouldn't it be great if you could transform your interviewing skills to ensure you're hiring the best person for each role? Welcome to The Hire Calling Podcast, where Pete Newsome and Ricky will show you how to do just that!
They are flipping the script on traditional interviewing practices and focusing on a conversational 80/20 ratio, where the candidate does most of the talking. To truly understand the candidate's capabilities, they will guide you through the art of asking the right questions. You'll also better understand the delicate balance between structured and unstructured interviews. In addition to addressing bias and discrimination in the hiring process head-on, Pete and Ricky advise conducting interviews legally and fairly.
As the episode concludes, they discuss soft skills, cultural fit, and hiring for attitude over skill set alone. Lastly, Ricky and Pete share how feedback can be a powerful tool for improving your interviewing process. For every HR professional, hiring manager, or recruiter looking to improve their hiring process, tune in, soak up insights, and revolutionize your interviewing skills!
After an interview, have you ever wondered if you uncovered the candidate's true potential? Wouldn't it be great if you could transform your interviewing skills to ensure you're hiring the best person for each role? Welcome to The Hire Calling Podcast, where Pete Newsome and Ricky will show you how to do just that!
They are flipping the script on traditional interviewing practices and focusing on a conversational 80/20 ratio, where the candidate does most of the talking. To truly understand the candidate's capabilities, they will guide you through the art of asking the right questions. You'll also better understand the delicate balance between structured and unstructured interviews. In addition to addressing bias and discrimination in the hiring process head-on, Pete and Ricky advise conducting interviews legally and fairly.
As the episode concludes, they discuss soft skills, cultural fit, and hiring for attitude over skill set alone. Lastly, Ricky and Pete share how feedback can be a powerful tool for improving your interviewing process. For every HR professional, hiring manager, or recruiter looking to improve their hiring process, tune in, soak up insights, and revolutionize your interviewing skills!
You're listening to The Hire Calling Podcast. I'm Pete Newsome and I'm joined today by Ricky Baez, once again, and we are your source for all things hiring, staffing and recruiting. Ricky, how are you today?
Ricky Baez:I'm doing great, Pete. So beautiful week, beautiful month, happy football season.
Pete Newsome:We're in Florida. My seminols are doing great. It's a happy time.
Ricky Baez:Not if you're a New York fan. Right, you got. You got the bills, you got the jets and you have the Giants, who all disappointed their fans in the same field in 24 hours. So I don't know about that.
Pete Newsome:Well, sorry for that, but you know it's college football in here in Florida, ricky. So we're asked yeah, we don't care about that stuff up north, but what we do care about is something that is on, unfortunately, too many people's mind today, which is interviewing. And While we like when people are getting new jobs, new opportunities, for the right reasons, unfortunately there's a lot of people looking on the market not by choice right now. I'm kind of a crazy time out there when you say oh, absolutely, because there's.
Ricky Baez:There is a wealth of information, and whether that information is good or bad, it's really hard to decipher. And that's what we're here to make sure you get the right information when you go out to start interviewing people and you know it's just starting. To make sure you find the right talent for your organization. So we are here, pete, to set the record straight.
Pete Newsome:There's a lot of seasoned, experienced candidates on the market and sometimes they have to interview with new managers, new recruiters, people who Don't have the same level of experience. So interview training is something that doesn't get talked about a lot, but we're going to talk about it today. We're going to talk about how to conduct a successful interview, what should be on your mind, what you should think about, especially if you're new as an interviewer. It's an important thing to understand.
Ricky Baez:Absolutely it. It definitely is. You know just how a candidate has to prepare for this interview. The interviewer has to prepare in the same manner for a different type of an approach. So, absolutely it's so. So the role of the interviewer, pete, what, what it's? So a lot of people step into this role, into the managerial, whether it's a recruiter or Whether it's somebody who it's, it's the hiring authority. They step into that role and they start to get nervous, right? I mean, do you remember the first time you had to interview? How nervous with you.
Pete Newsome:I was very nervous and I do remember it because I was 23 years old, I was recently out of school, at my first recruiting job and I had to interview someone who was older than my father and that Was really intimidating for me Until I read it was, for a while, stayed that way as a young professional until I realized it wasn't about my age, it was about how I presented myself, how I conducted the interview session, and so, as I became comfortable with that and had confidence that I knew what to do, the age sort of fell away. It wasn't a factor, but yeah, early on it was intimidating.
Ricky Baez:It. I remember the first time I interviewed for it for for human resources and the interviewer was more nervous than I was, and I Sweat, pete, you know, when I'm on the spot I sweat. They were sweating like crazy. So what we're gonna talk about here is give those interviewers, the, the confidence to know the different steps they need to take to make sure that they create a really good experience for the candidates. So let's get going.
Pete Newsome:Yeah, I mean look, you represent your company and yourself. That brand I mean how you behave and act and you treat that individual is is going to Resonate then and later on down the road. The person is going to remember so, even if they're a great candidate, if you don't conduct the interview Well, they may question whether they want to work for your organization. So let's start with some mistakes they're pretty common for for new interviewers and things that everyone can avoid.
Ricky Baez:Okay, so let's start talk. Well, let's start with the, with the big one right Over-reliant on your gut feeling, right? So, as a Candidate, as it as an interviewer, as a recruiter, you have to rely on the information that the candidate is giving you right, and that information, obviously, you have to decide whether that's a it's a credible information or not, but you cannot over rely on your gut feeling. Now, pete, I am gonna say this right, my gut feeling, almost a hundred percent of the time, is correct, but I can rely on it. I need the documentation to back it up. So, always, always, always, make a decision and rely on the documentation, information that the candidate gives you to make a decision for or for that candidate. So gut feelings is not a good, a good reason to Hire or not hire somebody.
Pete Newsome:I agree with you there. I agree with you there, let's. Let's go on to another one then. How about bias? Now, that word and we've probably talked about this on air before, but that word is usually a negative, and you and I, so I don't want to just focus on that, I want to talk about your discrimination and I'm gonna let you, you do most of the talking in this section, because you are our HR professional. Let's, can you separate bias from discrimination? Just briefly.
Ricky Baez:Correct. So Discrimination is what the law has, has determined what is illegal or not illegal. Now this, so let me pause for it quick. The word discrimination sounds bad. Right, as a recruiter, though. Right, our job is to decide who is the right person for the role or not. Where discrimination comes into play, when the law comes into play, is whether we do it legally or not. Right, because, at the end of the day, if you're interviewing 10 people, you only need five. There's five people who are not gonna get that job. So we just made a determination based on those, those Attributes. But when the bias comes in and I keep saying it because it sounds like my last name is when you hire somebody Based on your previous experience. Whether you hire somebody you like and they don't have the proper credentials to do the job, or you have somebody who has the credentials to do the job, you just don't like them, that bias me does not need to be included in that deciding factor, and the Discrimination piece it what it does.
Ricky Baez:It guides you to help you not to ask illegal questions, and Pete is very easy to fall into that trap. Right? I'll give you a great example. One of the things that I do to coach interviewers is to create an environment where the candidate is comfortable, right. So you, you do some chitchat, right, they come in. How was traffic? How was this? What about that game last night? You start asking those kinds of questions the more comfortable they get. That's breed, those are breeding grounds for questions. You should not be asking right, because next the next thing you know you could be asking well, I see here, you went to Puerto Rico, are you from there? Is that how you learn Spanish? When do you graduate high school? You're gonna fall into a lot of different traps that we have to look into.
Pete Newsome:So it's safe to say then, as a way of thinking about it, that just because it's a question that's appropriate in the outside world, if you meet someone in your, in your, in your personal life, doesn't mean that it's okay in your private life or in the end I'm sorry it doesn't mean that it's okay professionally in an interview setting specifically.
Ricky Baez:That is correct and and folks, at the end of the day, as as the interviewer, if you ask Non-relevant questions, if he has non-relevant questions and the person does not get the job, you're giving that person some kind of credibility in whatever idea they may have Into. They didn't get the job because of the illegal questions that were asked. Okay, so we, it's you. You just have to make sure that you stop yourself. You prevent yourself in that organization to fall into that trap.
Pete Newsome:So we will talk too much about what those questions are. Right now We'll link to the EEOC's website. That spells it out very clearly and there's a great read, by the way. Yeah, and well, there's there's, there's some little videos on there that will. That will help and it's really easy to understand what the protected classes are in what you need to avoid. But, ricky, we can Discriminate against some things, can't we? We can be biased against some things, can we not like? How about laziness? Can we? Can we be biased against that?
Ricky Baez:Absolutely somebody comes in right and they just don't care about the job. Everything they say just tells you they're lazy, right? Absolutely I'm not gonna hire that person right, that person is not gonna be on my team. And you know, if, if again somebody comes in and they show you that they do just enough not to get fired, it's not somebody that I want on my team and I'm just not gonna hire them. Right, and they can call, I mean they some people may call that discrimination and I mean I'm gonna go on a limb and say, yeah, it just happens to be legal.
Pete Newsome:That's right. That's right, and you have to know the difference. That's really what this is about and that comes down to preparation. So let's move on to to talk about that a little bit, because Companies, employers, shouldn't throw someone into the fire who isn't prepared, who hasn't had that exposure to the EEOC guidelines, because it's an easy mistake to make with good intentions. You described a perfect scenario. You're talking about where you were from the weekend. I know you recently traveled to Puerto Rico. I know you're from there. If I asked you too many questions about that, it may be innocent and it may be appropriate again in our personal lives, but I I might get in trouble for that. I could very well get in trouble for that. So we have to prepare to avoid those things. That's the best way for it not to happen.
Ricky Baez:Well, and also, it's just because it's the organization thinks they're doing something good, it doesn't mean it's not against the law. So let me give you a quick example. Pete, years ago I was doing a. I was helping an organization do an interview. They wanted to hire a forklift driver. I was on the panel with three other interviewers. This forklift driver candidate came in.
Ricky Baez:It was obvious she was pregnant. Right, she it's. It was very obvious. The hiring manager next to me, as soon as you start, no, you know what? We're not going to do this. And I'm looking at him and I kicked them so hard under the desk. Hey, because he did not want to interview her because she was pregnant. And the rationale he gave is like, ricky, I don't want her to get hurt, right, I don't want her or the baby to get. This is a tough job. And what I'm telling him is that's irrelevant. That is, that is an illegal reason Not to continue with the interview process. Now, his heart was in the right place because he genuinely believed he was doing the right thing. Nonetheless, still an illegal thing to do. Oh, trust me, we finished that interview. She got hired because she was the best candidate for that role, right? So those are the things that we have to be careful with as hiring authorities.
Pete Newsome:So what else can you do to prepare for an interview? So we have to make sure those things are in place and you have to have the knowledge as the interviewer. What about understanding the job description Right now? In this scenario, you just gave the person understood that there was some physical risk associated with it, but I think a lot of times a can't, a common can it complaint that I have is the interview takes place or In a common complaint that I hear, rather the interview takes place and the interviewer is unprepared To really understand what the job is about and what they should be asking about in terms of qualifying the individual who's there to interview for it. That's a terrible experience that to go through for that candidate.
Ricky Baez:So correct. So it for me. What I'm thinking about is a candidate experience. I prepared, I, I. I drove the actual routes. I bother my neighbor to help me interview and videotape me. I went and got my power suit. I prepared, I get to the interview early, I'm did everything right and the person is five minutes late to the interview. You can still see the, the Substains on your shirt, because they just finished eating lunch. They're reviewing the, the resume. It looks unprepared and from my perspective from the candidates perspective I start thinking this is their best foot forward and this is how they come in across.
Ricky Baez:Folks, you have to be careful what type of of of culture you project. So what do you do if you know you have an interview at 12 noon? That means way before 12 noon. You should review the resume, know who's coming in Already, have comments and questions on different parts of the resume that you have questions on. So Reviewing the resume at the beginning of the interview, it's just not a good look. You want to come across that you've done this before, you prefer it and you're ready for action. That's testing the Candidate. This organization has their stuff together.
Pete Newsome:So know the job, know the candidate and then know what you're going to ask. That's the next thing. They have a strategy for the interview. Whether you're alone or with a group, don't rely on others. If you're in a group, plan ahead of time, have a meeting about it, have a conversation and Be organized. That that's really what we're talking about and that's that's what preparation is, and if you are Prepared, it'll go smoothly. You'll really be in position to get to come away with a very good assessment of whether the can it's a good fit, and that's that's the objective, ultimately, of the time that you're spending.
Ricky Baez:That's right. Just just train, train ahead of time and look, I get it, we're busy. I completely understand, right, because if you're especially right now, pete, a lot of organizations are short staff at the bottom of the barrel and in the middle of the barrel, right, so you have a middle line manager who's like oh god, not only am, I am do not have enough time in the week to do my job. Now I got to interview five people. We completely get it. You've got to make time. You have to make time because your lack of resources really isn't the candidates problem, right, and the the candidate shouldn't suffer because of that and the candidate will.
Pete Newsome:The candidate will know They'll, they'll sense it, they'll sniff it out and it's gonna be very obvious. And just don't put anyone through that.
Pete Newsome:It's easily avoided with candidates today, have options, just saying they do and they'll, they'll, they'll consider that in terms of when they want to move forward. So let's, let's move on to another section now. This one's particularly interesting to me because I've always liked to approach interviews in an unstructured way. Maybe that's the professional sales person in me just can't get away from letting the Conversation guide the path that I go down. That's always how I've approached sales, where I'm listening and then responding. But that's very different than a structured interview, and there's pros and cons to both. Talk about that for a second, do you? How dangerous is an unstructured interview? I, given everything we just talked about in terms of preparation, I'm always prepared, but I like to let the conversation take its own course.
Ricky Baez:Me too, and so. So, yeah, this could be a whole different show there, pete, because I have a lot to to say about this one. So let's talk about unstructured interviews, right? That means that you don't have a set of questions, you just go with the conversation, and the danger in that is is that you run the risk of asking One person a different set of questions than a different person. So how can you possibly make a decision on the skillset needed for the job if you're asking different questions to get different answers, right? So it's the best thing to do is to make sure you have the same set of questions For every candidate that comes across. Now, obviously, I don't want the set of questions to Dominate the conversation, because if the candidate says something that's really exciting, you want to go down that road, definitely do so, but at the very least, you got to make sure the core questions remain the same. So now go ahead. Well, I was gonna say now You're asking somebody who's unconventional in how he does interviews.
Ricky Baez:Because I do not like to conduct interviews in the office, pete, at all. I do not. I like to go somewhere where the candidate is comfortable. So I like to go to Chili's. Right, I go to Chili's back. When I did this back in the past, we used to always go to Chili's. My boss was always upset because my P card was through the roof whenever it was interview season. But here's the thing, from from from a, from a hiring authorities perspective. If you create an environment that the candidate is really comfortable, you're going to get some amazing pieces of information. Because they're comfortable, they'll tell you exactly what they're excited about. More importantly, they tell you what they don't like. And sometimes you do it in a way that you're like I'm glad I'm finding this out now. Then six months down the road, so I can make a decision now. So that's how I do it, but everybody's different.
Pete Newsome:Well, and that's not practical for every scenario too. We know that. I mean, it's ideal. It'd be great if we could sit on a couch, have a meal, just spend significant time together. But a lot of times the structure and the time restraints don't really allow for that. But for certain positions, where it's a look, I'm just gonna say this some hires are more unique than others. So if you're hiring an executive level professional where there's very few candidates who are qualified, very few who could meet the criteria, that kind of investment of time is practical. But if you're hiring for 20 positions to fill a call center role, let's say probably not going to take them all to Chili's.
Ricky Baez:Absolutely not Just having a big job fair in the call center, like I've done in the past, and have a petting zoo, which I've done in the past.
Pete Newsome:Well, we don't necessarily recommend that, but it could be fun, maybe on the weekend. So, once the interview takes place, talk about the right questions, and so we suggest everyone plan. But what does that mean? Really? There's so many different styles of interviewing and different routes you can go down. One of the things that I believe is of particular importance and you just brought it up, which is why I wanted to talk about it next is behavioral interview questions. How do you? Just because someone looks good on paper doesn't mean they're going to be the right fit. So what's your thought on the importance of those?
Ricky Baez:So I'm really careful in crafting my questions because I don't want to ask questions that are answered in yes or no and I don't want to ask questions in what would you do in this situation, because what would you do doesn't tell me what you've done in the past. The questions I like to ask is tell me a time where ABC happened and where ABC happened, what was your response, what did you do to that and what was the outcome? That tells me that kind of an employee, this person is going to be in the same scenario, same situation that they're going to experience here. So can people lie? Of course they can, but if you ask, tell me a time when you did A, b and C. That gives you a more closer perspective into how he or she would handle that situation in your organization. So stay away from yes or no questions. Make sure that you ask questions, behavior questions, of what they've done in the past. You're going to end up in a much better position to make a decision to hire the right person.
Pete Newsome:And that decision to hire the right person.
Pete Newsome:To me, it's such a meaningful phrase because it's not about whether the person can do the job, it's not about whether they're qualified for the job, it's about whether they're going to be good fit for the job in the company culture and that's something that I was talking to my recruiting team earlier this morning about where people will say recruiting is sales and in many ways it is.
Pete Newsome:I believe that, but not in the sense of trying to talk someone into doing something. Try to talk someone into taking a job just because they can do it. It's about whether they will want to do it, whether they'll be happy and satisfied doing it, and whether the company will be happy and satisfied with them. And so that is important, as the skill set, those soft skills, really have to come out and we have to make sure that desires align right what the company desires and what the individual desires, and I think that gets lost too often. So it's something in my opinion it's very worthy of focusing on during the interview is let's see if we're really going to be a match, not just on the first day, but on day 100 and many days beyond that.
Ricky Baez:You said something in the past I don't know if it was on this show or the other one that really caught my attention. You said that you almost tried to talk people out of a job. You tell them everything about the job, everything about it, everything that happens, and if the good, bad and the ugly and if they're still like you know what I'm in you got the right person.
Pete Newsome:Well, yeah, I mean. So caveat to that is I was specifically talking about that in terms of hiring for recruiting and sales, because it's a commission oriented job and it can be a challenging job Every job can be but when people are your product, so to speak, you have to be a certain kind of person to withstand disappointment and frustration and knowing that you're going to. If you just think of recruiting, if you interview, if you call a candidate, if you see a hundred resumes that you've sourced and you call a hundred candidates for one job opening, that means 99 aren't going to get the job. Some significant percentage is probably not going to call you back. Some who do pick up the phone aren't going to be necessarily friendly and accommodating to why you're calling.
Pete Newsome:And so recruiting and a sales job and everyone knows this about sales but recruiting is the same way. It's not for the faint of heart. And so, yes, when we're hiring for a role like that, I do try to talk people out of the job. But it brings up an interesting thing that I read the other day. Someone posted on LinkedIn I don't know it wasn't someone I know or I probably would have called and talked to him about it but they said let's get away from excluding candidates, let's try to rule in candidates. And I thought no, no, no, no, no. That is not how you should recruit.
Ricky Baez:Yeah, I'm with you there.
Pete Newsome:It sounds nice, right. Rainbows and puppy dog tails, whatever right, and butterflies, I mean. All that sounds nice like a Disney movie, but the reality is you have to look for the things that aren't on the surface. That's what a good recruiter or interviewer can do is let's not just share all the positive, let's make sure this is going to be, like I said, a good fit on day 100, just like we think it is on day one, and so you have to get underneath the surface to really have those conversations. That's taken us a little off topic for today, but Is it.
Ricky Baez:I'm sorry, go ahead.
Pete Newsome:No, it's okay and I would say it's necessary even to talk about the downside of a job If you only say here's all the good, right, let me just give you our good traits. Well, we don't want to be surprised with bad news later. So you know, I'm a big believer that bad news early is good news. Same thing applies in the interview process.
Ricky Baez:I think it's crucial. I think it's crucial. I think if you don't give the good, the bad and the ugly, you're going to run the risk of dealing with people who will have an issue with that six months down the road, after you spend a lot of money to onboard them and train them. Might as well take care of that at the very beginning. One more thing I want to say I know that we have to move on, because this crafting the question piece is crucial, and here's what is crucial. Another area Depending on the nature of the job, you may have to ask some questions that on the face, on the surface, may sound illegal.
Ricky Baez:A great example we talked about earlier how you can fall into a trap. If I just went to Puerto Rico, is that how I learned how to speak Spanish? What happens if you do have a position that one of the skillset is that you know that you have to know Spanish? Do not make an assumption whether somebody knows Spanish or not because of their last name. Do not make an assumption because of that. You have to ask in a specific manner. Don't say oh, you lived in Puerto Rico, so you have to know Spanish. You lived in the Dominican Republic, you have to know Spanish. Now you ask everybody one of the main things for this job is you have to be proficient to speak and write Spanish. Is that something you can do? That's it. That's it. And if they say yes, you go forward. If they say no, that's a knockout question, then you're going to have to make a left there. But you have to partner with human resources to make sure that the right questions are asked for the right positions.
Pete Newsome:Consistent with everything we've said so far. Right, Make sure you know what's allowed and what's not. That is step one, prior to any of these deeper level things, for sure. But let's move on. Go to another one. Let's talk about active listening a little bit, responding and reacting to what the candidate says. Don't be a robot. I don't want to dwell on this one too much but a good interviewer listens and responds. They don't just have a canned set of questions and you may need to change your course a little bit during the interview conversation.
Ricky Baez:I'm a firm believer, Pete, that in an interview, once you do the introductions and you explain what the job is all about, anything after that, 80% of the conversation should be coming from the candidate and 20% should be coming from the hiring authority. I mean, I'm a big believer in that. Do you share that same sentiment or do you have a different ratio?
Pete Newsome:I do. I mean, certainly at the beginning of the interview. I want to hear from the candidate, because once you start talking as the interviewer, that's going to skew the conversation and the answers that would have otherwise come from the candidate. You want those to be natural, so you don't want to say early in the interview we look for people who think ABC or ACT, abc in every scenario, whatever that might be. We look for aggressive people, or we look for people who are, who love working as a team, for example, right. And then if someone who likes being autonomous and really likes solo work, if they hear the interviewer say upfront we are looking for people who want to be part of a team and how they spend their day. If they need the job, they'll say that, even if they don't mean it.
Pete Newsome:So planning thoughts in the candidate's head is just a bad idea. It won't leave too genuine, open, honest answers. Not because the candidate intended to give answers that weren't genuine. It's because you told them that's what you were looking for and so of course they're going to tell you what you want to hear, or they I mean they may just get up and walk out, I mean, but very few people do that I've discovered. So let the candidate do the talking. And then at the end, if you are concerned about something, as the interviewer or, in my case, as we just were talking about, if I want to try to talk someone out of something because I've sensed that they may not be a good fit from their words, then I will press down on those things at the end. But yes, 100%, let them do the talking upfront.
Ricky Baez:That's right. Okay, so we're in the same page, awesome.
Pete Newsome:We usually are on this stuff Right. I mean, when it comes to interviewing, there's a certain set of guidelines that are almost universal in nature. I mean, there's extremes and there's unique things for every job. How you'd interview someone to play in the NFL is different than how you'd interview someone to work in a call center, but in the business world these things almost always are universally applicable. So let's move on to another section and briefly talk about culture, fit and the importance of that. I think we did already, but it's on, it's kind of on the list that we want to make sure that we do talk about the importance of identifying soft skills. So was there anything we missed there, ricky?
Ricky Baez:No, it's I. To be honest, Pete. I got a lot of pushback on this one because I'm a firm believer in hiring for attitude Right. So to me, if the person meets the minimum criteria of what the job requires, but they have the right attitude for the job, absolutely I'm going to go with that person, versus somebody who's just taking the mud for a lack of a better term. So, yes, you have to assess for soft skills and make sure you have a good cultural fit, because not only do you have to hire the right person for the organization, you have to hire the right person to mesh with the rest of the team they're going to be working with.
Ricky Baez:Yeah, I mean that is an important thing to, to to take into account.
Pete Newsome:It absolutely is. I mean, the organization is the individuals, right. So it's not the company brand, the company name, it's, it's those other people you you're going to work with. I mean, it doesn't matter who works for you know ABC company, if they work in in Europe and you never engage with the team in Europe. It matters who you're working with locally as part of your day to day life. So that's I think that's as important as anything else in an interview for the Candace perspective, as are they going to be happy with people they have to interact with every day?
Ricky Baez:Right, yeah, Well, yeah, just just just get along in a way that's respectful and it it there's healthy conflict, because you do want that, you don't want to avoid all conflict, but they do it in a way that it it adds value to the culture of the organization and, at the end of the day, and that's value to what you're selling, whether it's a product or a service, because, the end of the day, we are a for profit organization. Most of organizations are so so you've.
Pete Newsome:You've conducted the interview, you've closed, right. What happens next? If you're you know, sometimes an individual make a decision by themselves, they'll have complete autonomy, but a lot of times there's others involved. I would say the vast majority of the time. In my experience, at least one other person, if not more, gets to weigh in on a candidate, maybe has to approve a hire. What thoughts do you have on what should happen post interview?
Ricky Baez:So, post interview, I'm a firm believer, pete, in letting the candidate know what to expect from beginning to end. That way, they are not lost in the process. Nine times out of 10 in an interview process, everybody knows what's going to happen next, except one person the candidate. So we need to let that person know what is to be expected and you know what, whether they get the job or not. I think it's really important to ask the candidate about the process. How did the process go? Do you have any feedback from the process? Because you, as a hiring authority, you're seeing this from the hiring authority's perspective. That same situation is being processed by somebody from a different point of view and they have really good information to make your profit. Your process is just that much better. So I suggest you should have some kind of a process to ask for feedback and you implement that feedback. So ask for feedback, have some reflection and let the candidate know what to expect next.
Pete Newsome:I was just thinking about panel interviews the other day because we published a blog about it, the pros and cons, and one thing that I like about panel interviews is the. Now, there's a lot to not like about panel interviews, especially from the candidate's perspective. Right, most aren't fans, but what it does for me is it gives the ability, it forces the ability, to hear the perspective of a peer, a colleague, someone from a different department, someone from a different level within your organization, because we all hear the same things, but the way we interpret it is different. You might see different body language and when you're actively engaged in a conversation, like you and I are right now, it's different than when you're witnessing other people exchange, be engaged in a conversation. So you get to hear something different.
Pete Newsome:Right, I'm thinking about what you're saying. I'm also having to think about how I'm going to respond versus just being an independent observer. And when I hear other people ask questions in a panel interview that I'm part of, in a lot of times these questions I wouldn't have thought to ask. They hear something I miss. So there's a lot of value there and a surprising it's not surprising to me anymore, but perhaps to those who haven't been through a lot of interviews, a surprising amount of time. One person may love a candidate. The other person may have a lot of reasons not to like them at all, even though they were exposed to the same information.
Ricky Baez:So that is when you get everybody together and you have honest, heart-to-heart conversations on why you didn't like that person. Why you did like that person Because, yes, I agree with you, pete panel interviews I get just the same amount of information to hire a candidate or not hire a candidate from my peers on the panel interview. Then I do, then the actual candidate, because you're right, the person to my left or to my right may have seen something I didn't see. So that's why I love panel interviews. For that very same reason.
Pete Newsome:Yeah, and it's a great way for young interviewers to be exposed, or new interviewers anyway to be exposed to those with more experience, where they have the ability to learn, because interview training is something that should be ongoing. I mean, I can't think of any examples I probably shouldn't say them, if I do off the top of my head that things that were acceptable in an interview 30 years ago that aren't acceptable now, but I bet there's a pretty long list. So if you're not trying to continue to improve and be part of learning and evolving, it might create a different kind of problem. So, even though really this interview training show that we're doing today is about, we kind of by default think of new employees, young professionals, because it's just as important, if not even more important, to older professionals who are more set in their ways.
Ricky Baez:Well, it's Pete. It's something that I believe should be done on an annual basis, because there's now the way technology is evolving, the way the work culture is evolving, and it's happening right in front of our eyes. You don't get to see everything just by working right. You have to conduct training and who knows, maybe as a result of this podcast, pete, you and I will do a webinar on this right. We already know exactly what needs to happen. I've done this in the past and it works, but it's there are different things that are happening in the world today that just never existed five, six years ago. So it's crucial to conduct training on an annual basis to make sure your number one, your, your recruiters and your hiring authorities are representing your brand in the light in which the culture it's, it's, it's supposed to be with that brand. That's crucial you don't get sued right. It's really easy for that to happen these days.
Pete Newsome:So that's right. That's. That's step one. Step one don't get sued. Step two everything else. But no, I got it backwards. Well, no, I think you're. You're right. I mean, though, in a sense you do have to have the big elephant in the room, so to speak, of the any kind of legal issue. But we know that there's a ripple effect that takes place of every interaction, and you're someone who is such a big believer in onboarding and how that process starts from the moment you engage with a candidate, and I think you're 100% right about that. But a lot of times, the interview is not going to go well. If you would have been more than one person for one opening, someone's going to be disappointed, someone's going to have to be told they didn't get the job, and if you didn't treat that individual well, intentionally or otherwise, it's going to have a ripple effect and it's going to damage the company's reputation.
Ricky Baez:And you know, and not only that, pete, it's, it's we. Let's talk about the higher-end authorities energy, right, because if you interview somebody, let's say you interview in five people in one day, I guarantee your energy, your, your enthusiasm on interview number one, different than interview number five, right? So we got to make sure that it's that you give the same energy with all interviews as you do as the first interview, and it's hard to do, but it's not impossible to do. You just have to work a little bit More. I don't know. Go to Starbucks after lunch, right. Do whatever you need to do today to get that caffeine up, to make sure you are showing every candidate the same enthusiasm, yeah, that that you normally wish show for the first candidate such.
Pete Newsome:I'm really glad you made that point Because it's so important that, even though it may be your tenth interview, it's the candidates first. That's right. That tenth candidate is doing it for the first time. And If you you can't show that, even if you feel it and we all know what that feels like the thought that I don't want to Go do this. I've done it ten times and it's real, I mean, it's a struggle, is real, so to speak. But you have to. You have to put on a different face. You have to stop and bring that enthusiasm and that's a word that I use a lot, it's a word that I have great belief in in terms of Success in and how someone is perceived Enthusiasm and I certainly look for that in candidates. Well, I should have the same enthusiasm when I'm interviewing because they took the time to be there. It's a huge thing in someone's life. Of course. We have to take that seriously and give it the respect it deserves. And Right, you know, bring your best that you're obligated to do that as an interviewer.
Ricky Baez:That's right. And and look, if you are a leader right now listening to this and you have recruiters that are that are that, that are exposed to all these candidates and all these situations that we're talking about again, get them the training. Get it sent on this podcast, right, send them this podcast, make sure they listen to it, because, folks, it is really easy to step on the landmine and we are here to make Sure you navigate through those and make sure you hire the best people for your organization.
Pete Newsome:Trust me on that, I will die in that hill well, let's close on that hill too, because I think that's a perfect way to do it. Ricky, will we do a follow-up, I think, on what happens to the candidates who aren't selected? What, how you, how you present offers? That's its own show Post interview, so we'll do that later. But next week, ricky, I think we're due for Q&A. We we have questions piling up. We keep saying we're going to do it and haven't done it yet, so can we commit right now next week Q&A session?
Ricky Baez:Roger that I will be in town, I will be in the studio. Absolutely, that is gonna happen.
Pete Newsome:I love the new look. I the studio is looking good. It's wonderful. I won't ask you to go back and sit in the chair, but it looks great.
Ricky Baez:Thank you, appreciate it.
Pete Newsome:So so let's do that. If you want to throw in another question, we have room for more. We always like getting will pick the best. It is hire calling@4 corner resources. com. We'd love to hear from you on any, any suggestions you have for the show. So thanks for joining and this has been this has been a fun conversation, as always, ricky. Hopefully we we help some folks out there improve their interview process.
Ricky Baez:I'm sure we did, and make sure you tune in for next week. We we are gonna have that Q&A. Keep your eyes open. We might have that a leadership, that a recruitment, training, interview and training coming up for yourself.
Pete Newsome:All right, stay tuned. Have a great rest of the day. Bye you.